Balance and Spells update

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BearFather
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Balance and Spells update

Post by BearFather » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:36 pm

Okay so the next update is balance and spell time. So I know several post here lately is about balance. So help a stoner out and let's get a list going. Post up and I will edit the main post here with issues that you guys have found. And don't say shit like all spells.

Balance list:
Lvl 70 armour -- done
Offhand
Up AF and lvl 120 items -- done
Add cash items to Firenewts -- done
more exp/up regen on Kuo Toa
add spells to bolster dmg types for lower levels. IE super fireball, super frost jet


More to come....

EDIT: So this patch has been chunks of updates.


Demandrid
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Re: Balance and Spells update

Post by Demandrid » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:04 pm

Bard Spell Suggestions

Spell Updates / Balancing

Battle v. Combat Expertise v. Combat Mastery - To me this is a very big imbalance, as bards niche is being the best at buffing however priest classes have a very similar damage buff at level 21 and both mage priest have a far superior buff at level 50. If you compare song of war at level 50 it's cap is same max damage, crits accuracy but could be 5 less depending on cast. To me this is a big disparity, I understand they are party spells and we encourage party play but the bard spells should be some of the best buffs in the game. If we spend 90% of our time scripting solo it's more advantageous to just roll a missionary as the buffs for yourself are better.

Battle LVL 40 +6 Dodge, Crits, +1 HP a tick
Combat Expertise LVL 21 +6 Max Damage, +6Accuracy, +6Crits
Combat Mastery LVL 50 +8 Max Damage, +8 Accuracy +8 Crits
Song of War LVL 60 +3-8 Dodge, Crits, Damage, Accuracy, Healing
Symphony of Battle LVL 90 - +8 - 18 Dodge, Crits, Damage, Accuracy

Propose adding a higher cap to battle, war and symphony and a better base. Base of War +8 up to 15, Symphony Base +10 Max +20, battle raise lvl cap to 45 so it caps at 8.

- New Spells -
Song of Empowerment 60
+15 Str, Agil, Int, Wisd, Charm (removes hero, enli, mite, agil, beau, wisd, bril) This is a upgraded version that includes all those low levels in one spell

Song of Vengence - Inc: Batt, Swif, Foce, Evas 70
Max Damage +5 Acc +20 +25 Dodge, +10 Crits, + 15 AC / 2 DR Enc +10 MR +15

Hymn of Restoration Level 50 (Similar to natures kiss / arcane touch maybe on firenewt shaman)
Heal 50 - 125

Song of Clarity - Level 70 (party)
Heal mana 10 - 25 for 10 rounds (regeneration for mana)
Heal 10 - 25 for 10 rounds (health regen)

- Bard Item Balances -
Leather we discussed - No need to discuss further

Off-hand for Bard - (Notable off hands ignored general store ones)
JMG - LvL 10 Crits +3, BS Min +5, Acc +3 Lim 1
Bleeding Main LvL 30 - 2/0 AC, -5 Damage, +10 Crits, evil only, cursed
Jeweled Cross LvL 30 - 4/2 AC, +6 Crits, Bs Min +15, Illu, +6 Acc Lim 1
Blackwood Harp LvL 45 - 1/0 AC, +2 Damage, +15 SC, +10 Dodge
Drider Shield LvL 70 - 10/2 AC

IMO - We need more options so here are some, this would allow those questors to be rotated back to the game as others are.

Elven War Harp - LVL 50 - 2/1 AC, +5 Damage, +5 Crits, +5 Dodge, +2 spell duration (it's a harp it helps us play music) This could be sold at the Eladrin Forest
Fire Monk Flute - LVL 60 - 5/2 AC, +25 BS Min Damage, +5 Damage, +5 Crits, +5 Dodge, +20 Fire Resist (Limit 3)
Matron's Battle Horn -LVL 70 +3/5 AC, +20 Min / Max BS Damage, +6 Damage, +6 Crits, +6 Dodge +20 Lightning Resist (Limit 3) (priestess cast lightning in there felt it fit)
Eventually something for lvl 90 and 120 but i've not experienced those areas to get an idea on them, maybe a later time.

* Bring perfect stealth back, though make it for classes that are race/class stealth combos so it's not abused by half-ogre ninjas etc.

-Druid Ideas-

More caster staves, I have my level 40 staves that are magical 3, Yuan Ti Tail is limit 3, Rune Capped is limit 2, no other options for caster staves until socketed weapons. We have store bought dual hammers / black adas at 70 but having something for casters at the shops would be nice to help as a gap measure.

Upgraded Regen spell - Level 50 or 60 - greater regen - 12 - 30 for 10 rounds

Upgraded Armor Spell - Level 50 or 60 - Skin of Nature - +12/12 AC, +10 all resist

Level 60 Direct Damage Fire Spell, firenewt or firemonk dropped?
Fire Jet - Similar to Water but for fire

Level 60 AOE Lightning Spell, dropped from storm giants like splinter is from hill
electrical storm - similar to splinterstorm but different element.

Other Class Ideas - thought i dont play them.

Warlocks / Gypsy should get Arcane touch
Rangers should get natures kiss and probably an upgraded version of prowess as it doesn't compare to combat expertise / mastery priest and mage get.
I would imagine they could use some off hand assistance.
Last edited by Demandrid on Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Demandrid
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Re: Balance and Spells update

Post by Demandrid » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:09 am

- Balance Ideas for Areas / Mobs -

I don't have a ton of experience in new areas but from what I've observed.

Kuo Toa Village seems like it could be a great place to script but the damage v. exp rewards don't pan out. Ocean is far superior due to neutral mobs. Intended? Maybe adjust the castable damage down or increase # of mobs per room and make it a room scripting area. Also, up the regen on the King to make him more valuable to include in the loop?

Water Giants - Not sure how this goes early testing again showed not as god as ocean due to castable damage (this means not avoidable thus resting more)

Firenewts, too much health by a loot to make this area scriptable anywhere in the 60-70 range even with 3 people. Lessen damage output / decrease health maybe add some cash items to sell in this area. If we spend 200 runic per character to get here make the trip worth it and a chance to earn that money back?

Storm Giants - Amazing - Better than all the areas above

Crystal Dragons - Amazin - Better than all areas above

Crystal Worms - Great area, possibly drop the crystal item dragons do as well to have more areas to earn money pre high end areas.

I really cant speak to many more areas than this, i'm barely touching on Menzo and though it seems hard it seems to have options to script where the casters are not.
I'd suggest tuning firenewts, kuo toa and maybe water giants to make them more desirable as people level. Currently, there is little incentive to explore chult outside the quest because other areas are so much more lucrative and better exp. I'd love a reason to travel out there more frequently.

Outside this, i think prophet and others could speak on areas.


Demandrid
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Re: Balance and Spells update

Post by Demandrid » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:27 am

- Diversity -

Right now, I see the main game as being very diverse lots of limited items based on class this is obviously very time consuming so the new areas are merged and funneled down into store bought items at levels 50 (dual warhammers) 70 (khaliff items) with very little deviation from this.

I think it homogenizes classes and if they dont get something here they are left out in the cold (see 1h sharp classes at 50 and leather at 70) though i think were fixing this, i think it would be good to consider adding more options on bosses, though i am not a huge fan of "limited" items system I am a fan of boss items that are extremely rare. Maybe 1-5% drops on great items from Water Giant King, maybe he drops a badass harpoon or firenewt shaman drops spells but maybe a badass caster staff 5% etc. This would just give us more reason to engage bosses in this realm. Kraken is great for exp but outside that why kill him? Reward people playing at keys fighting hard bosses. If you agree, i can do some boss research and item suggestions for bosses with some class diversity. That post would be fairly time consuming so if you hate the idea i wont bother.

Implementing it would just be creating items and tagging them to bosses so not to time consuming adding just thinking it up.

Let me know and I'll work on some early ideas ASAP for level 50-90 bosses. Rewards could be for things outside weapons too, rings, neck, wrist, bracelets etc.


Demandrid
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Re: Balance and Spells update

Post by Demandrid » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:27 pm

Example of items - per our discussion earlier.

1) Avatar pendant – (Worn) +50 RFIR, +3 damage, +10 spell damage, +10 health regen, +10 mana regen, +50 health, – 200 rcol (1-5% drop fire avatar)
2) Dragon Ring – (Finger) +10 damage, +15/5 AC, +25 MR, immune to fear, +25 health regen, +25 mana Regen, +75 SC – (1 – 5% ancient sand dragon)
3) Anti-magic pendant – (worn) +15 damage, +100 health, +5 crits – witchunter only (1-5% phaerimm elder)
4) Hanging tree limb – (off hand) +14/3 AC, immune to stun (1-5% hanging tree)

I can do more, these are some bosses i see that get killed very little and could have some cool items to drop.


iLLprophet
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Re: Balance and Spells update

Post by iLLprophet » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:56 pm

This feels like homework!

The new level 90 socketed weapons. I think they overshot their mark in the damage portion. The procs are a higher % chance and hit for higher damage than the lvl 120 forged weapons, and the proc damage on them is higher than the lvl 120 aegis-fang.

Just some numbers to back this up:

socketed greatsword: Abilities: Rlit +50, Magical +10 -- Casts: [opal stone(1748), (@lvl 120): Damage 140 to 345, 75%]

aegis-fang: Abilities: Magical +8, Crits +3 -- Casts: [blue lightning(1576), (@lvl 120): Damage 105 to 270, 75%]*
*It takes until level 145 for the aegis-fang to catch up to the socketed greatsword at level 120.

This disparity is even worse when compared to the 66% proc chance the lvl 120 forged weapons have. I was just trying to show the lvl 90s compared to the arguably best weapon in the game.

Also, another issue I see is a 2h weapon like the lvl 90 socketed greatsword has a 2/0 ac/dr whereas the lvl 120 2h aegis-fang, 2h forged bastard sword, 2h warhammer have 0/0.

I think a solution would be to dial back the lvl 90s just a bit and scale up the lvl 120s to create a larger gap between the two.

I hope this all makes sense. Play around with mme and you can see for yourself.


Demandrid
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:14 pm

Re: Balance and Spells update

Post by Demandrid » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:57 am

Bard EXP Chart ~

So today I was looking at how long until level 90 (me next chance at upgrades) and realized that bard has a natural 210% chart, lower than Missy, Gypsy, Ranger in regular mud. Thought I think they should have been the same as gypsy missionary. Ranger, Gypsy and Missionary all had there chart lowered to 200% while Bard's are left at 210% I think at the minimum Bards should be reduced to 200% as well if bards are getting some attention with spell upgrades etc. If not, they should be lower than the other three. Missionary and Mage have a buff spell equal to battle, rangers have better combat, any weapon, healing etc.

I don't believe this was intentional, maybe it was, but i hope this can get an adjustment to be on par with the other exp adjustments.

As it stands right now from 70 - 90 I need 37,438,950,323 exp to upgrade, at my current rate of 4.3 mil per hour that's 362 days. 10% adjustment cuts off 36 days. Though if you consider how long it is until my next upgrade I see why people burn out around 70-80 (this was a discussion between Prophet and I).
Compared to warrior - It will take me 129 days to make 90, and no one can argue plate isn't better than leather.

This is another reason why area's may need to be adjusted to increase exp per hour values.


jprd105
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:35 pm

Re: Balance and Spells update

Post by jprd105 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:26 am

Personally, I really like the idea of having valuable items drop from bosses that are not limited but low drop rate. Currently, at lvl 40- 60 there is not a huge incentive to kill bosses with the exception of the exp. I am imagining a lvl 50-60 set that is better than the lvl 50 store purchased gear. Each boss could have a 1% chance to drop an item from each class this way it would encourage a diverse group of people to kill the boss. To complete the set you would need to kill a number of bosses. I imagine this may take a while to complete the set, it could be advantageous to have a tiered bonus structure for the set, so if you have the boots and gauntlets it would be tier 1 and you could use your gauntlets to get small bonus spell. Then you get head and chest and legs to get the remaining buff. The buffs would need to stack in order to be effective but it could be a fun way to build up.

Accessories - I also think there is room for a similar set of accessories sets. Would be interesting to have Mask, necklace(maybe, already have upgraded feather), rings and bracelets. Once you get the set you get some small bonus, could be different sets for different classes just like we have now.


thewein
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Re: Balance and Spells update

Post by thewein » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:50 am

I have a ranger that I'm considering rolling and my gang pals on the board suggested I post here rather than just roll him. Anyway, I feel the ranger is a bit weak for my taste. And I know high level rangers seem to feel the same. My missionary is outdamaging my ranger by quite a bit and they both have very similar weapons. Since I'm fairly new I don't know if any of these things have been implemented. I'm just going off the MME file and the 'newbie' notes. The 3 things I could suggest that would make me keep him are:

1. giving rangers stoneskin
2. raising the cap on prowess. it currently caps out at 50th. maybe raise that to 80th?
3. a better healing spell. I know the cap has been raised on mend but it's still weaker than major healing. greater mend or nature's kiss would be great.

Anyway, I love the board! Thanks Bear!

Windmere / Thewien


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BearFather
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Re: Balance and Spells update

Post by BearFather » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:39 am

Yes always post up your ideas! I might not use them, but they will cross my mind when making new shit. Or they just might make it into the game. Many of my sadistic ideas have came from other players.

1. I could see this happening but maybe at a higher level then a ranger.

2. I will have a look at prowess and see what that will effect

3. hmm I will have a look, maybe a ranger healing spell between mend and kiss.


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