Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

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MiOw
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Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

Post by MiOw »

I was lying here thinking about the Thief class, and by proxy the Missy and Gypsy as well, and wondered whether edits to amp up their combat level and backstab bonuses might still leave the feel of a stock realm relatively intact? The leather armor and 1-h weapon limitation is going to always restrain them a little, but what if the thief was set to combat-5 with a +min/+max backstab bonus of +75 / +125, whereas the Missy and Gypsy went the combat-3 with a +50 / +100 bonus... seems like this would make them quite a bit more fun and survivable while being able to add a little more to parties and the game. The Bard could use a bump to backstab, but otherwise would remain the same.

Thoughts?


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syntax
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Re: Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

Post by syntax »

I never played a thief much but I always felt that the largest reason for their "shittiness" was due to having such a low EXP table. Level fast but suck more. Up their exp table accordingly and you can increase their combat.


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Re: Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

Post by MiOw »

syntax wrote:I never played a thief much but I always felt that the largest reason for their "shittiness" was due to having such a low EXP table. Level fast but suck more. Up their exp table accordingly and you can increase their combat.
Good call... move their table to 100% or something near that perhaps...

As a quick add,my backstab numbers were completely arbitrary and only for the sake of spurring the discussion. Someone with more awareness of how BS is calced may be able to offer better suggestions. Thanks!


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Re: Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

Post by syntax »

Use the simulator in MME to figure that out. Key to a good editor is to use all of the tools available to you to test and simulate as best as possible, from level 1 through max expected level.


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Re: Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

Post by BearFather »

I run a hog thief in a edited realm mind you, but it's stock with more shit to do basically. But after I say lvl 50-60 I gave up on my BS mainly cause I could crit harder. And he does crit a lot! I will tell you now he's a blast to play. And without PVP he looses his biggest asset, robing and tracking. So a thief kinda becomes lame after 40 cause his best feature becomes worthless, unless fighting a boss that doesn't follow.

Now remember if you have PVP, and you raise that BS up to compensate players will be able to 1 rnd with a surprise. My lvl 148 hog thief has a BS of 1325, that's over 2/3 of my realms hps, of course no one will fight him mainly they are scared of that BS but if I don't land it he will become lunch.

As far as gypsy and missy goes, Miss's don't need buffing they are actually pretty badass once you hit 40, they can solo so much shit it's actually amazing. Only issue they get boring, cause they don't have the hps to with stand big long fights. Gypsies needs a lot more then a combat upgrade, but then you got to watch out you don't step on the warlock toes. What they need is to give mage-2 more spells to play with and mana/mana rgn. Notice how mages can be one of the top damage dealers, but what gypsy will use spells past lvl 30?


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Re: Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

Post by MiOw »

> BearFather & Syn

Great feedback to consider and, like Syn mentions, something to fool around with using MME and the test board. I think it sounds right that the thief's backstab is feared. I think my test range for thief is narrowing in on raising the exp chart to the 100 - 120% range, increasing combat to 3, and adding a significant backstab advantage (+accy, +min/max); I just have yet to play around with class edits in Nightmare and narrow in on exactly how much of an edit/bonus to make. Suggestions welcome...

Missy - perhaps no room for tweak outside of a milder backstab bonus?

Gypsy - starting to think the gypsy could fill in more like the wardancer...? Reduce to Mag-1, silk/natural armor, add a +dodge bonus, increase combat to 4/5.


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Re: Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

Post by MiOw »

Realize the "significant" backstab bonus idea would be a little wonky in the early levels... a level 3 thief backstabbing for 150+ with a regular shortsword could be a little bit peevish... :lol:

I do not have significant experience or background in "real" programming, but assuming that adding some sort of *lvl modifier to a class would be a pretty big undertaking? For example, thief class gets a lvl*3 bonus to BSMinDmg, BSMax, etc...?


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Re: Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

Post by BearFather »

There is no way to do that in the class that I know of. Only way I can think of is by giving them items at certain levels. Could do a token that is is worn nowhere, and that has BS + on it. And then a small quest to change them out so often.

Also on the wardancer idea, if you drop them to magic-1 then you will have no mage-2 classes, cause if I remember right warlock is mage-1.


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Re: Thief / Missy / Gypsy - amped up in a stock realm?

Post by MiOw »

BearFather wrote:There is no way to do that in the class that I know of. Only way I can think of is by giving them items at certain levels. Could do a token that is is worn nowhere, and that has BS + on it. And then a small quest to change them out so often.
On the same wavelength here... was just chewing on item ideas for such a modifier but hadn't considered the "nowhere" slot.
BearFather wrote:Also on the wardancer idea, if you drop them to magic-1 then you will have no mage-2 classes, cause if I remember right warlock is mage-1.
Warlock is mag-2... would basically trade out room spells for a more dynamic melee character. Perhaps something for a future realm idea.

Thanks!


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